House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 75 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 75 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/75?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:39:28 PM] HOUSE OF COMMONS Fifth Seaion-Twenty-first Parliament 1951 (Second Session) SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE EXPENDITURE Chairman-Mr. DAVID A. CROLL MINUTES OF PROC EDINGS AND VIDENCE No. 3 MONDAY. DECEMBER 10, 1951 WITNESSES: Mr. . W. Ma kenzie, C. .Ci., Deputy Mininer, D par1ment of O fonce Production. Mr. C. M. Drury, C.B .. , D.S.O .. E.D .. Deputy Mini ter, Dt'p nrnen of National Defence. OTTAWA EDMOND UTtER. C PRrNTJ:H TO THE KINC' OST C TROU..1:11 or T 111&1 House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 76 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/76?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:39:49 PM] ERRATUM Mmures of Evidence of Deeembn 6-No. 2 Page 53-du®." House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 77 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/77?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:40:00 PM] NUTES O PROCEEDINGS MONDAY, December 10, 1951. Tbe Special Committee on Del nee Expenditure met this day at 11 o'clock a.m. . David A. Croll. Chairman, presided. Jfsmbff.f prant: Messrs. Adam,on, Balcom, Blanch tte. Campney, Cav rs, Chun:hill, Drew, Fulton, Gauthier (Port'MU1), Georg , Harkness, Hend rson, Jcmee. acdonnell (Greenwood), MacDougall, McCuaker, Mcllraith, Pow r, Quekh, Stick, Wea er, nd Wrlgh . (23). laAttfllcl4noc: From lbe Depczrtmmt oJ IHf,mce PToducttcm: Mr. M. W. Mackenzie, Mr. T. . Beaup , Mr. G. W. Hunter and Miss Ruth . Addison. From the Depcn1fflfflt of National Defnu:e: Mr. C. M. ~rury, Mr. E. B. AnnstronJ, and Mr. . s. Dunc:an. From the Depanmmt of FlMn«: Mr. R. B. Bryce. Tile hairman tabled: 1. P.C. 171-Comp08it on of th Treasury Board. ( ee APJ>endi.% A), 2. Mnn , phed copy of Mr. Bryce's statemenl made n Decemb r 6, copies of whi h w maded to the members of the Commit~ (Sl!:e APJ)ndi.% I to Ei;idmce o/ De~mb r ti, No. 2), 3. A correction In Mr. Ma kenzl 's s tement mad on Decem r 6 1.ut, oopi of which wen1 also mail to lhe members. The Commit umed s coru.1der tion of defence expenditures and comrmtmcnts. Mr. Mack •ntie w c lied. He &a,ve fuU particulars wilh respect o th J)W'C'hue of two De Havilland Comet ai raft, ns sked by Mr. Drew, q otmg from «?rtilled cop of rl'qu sit on, correspondence, ontract, purch er, et . The wit w ex mmed tbereQn nd he ppliNI dditionnl foformati n requested. The wit esa ftled v.'l the Cl rk a rllll copy of h~ bove do Mr. Drury was callt!d and tabled lh following doclJ.ffl(!nts in QU tions liked on ~mber -Ith and 6th, nnm ly. Ap~dix B-Llst of nior ppomtmenu; a • Lional Defence Hcad- qu mrs. (Supplcmtnwru to Cliar o, 2 ell tnbure at m~~irng of Decembe-r 4.) ppend1 C-P unncl of t De! n e rch Board, Appendix D- onlhly of p y nd llowan for all ranks for h Arm S rv1 . ( ovembc!r 30, l95l ). Appendi orth Allanbc Tre ty Oraani.tation, Mutu I Aid Pr r: m, (1950-51 nd 1951-:12). Appendi F-Stat.ement of e m , allotments: nd xperuhtu c for the Armed Servi 1 50-1 51 fiscal year), 65 $7371 ll House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 78 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/78?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:40:07 PM] SPECIAL CO 1117'1' B Appendix G-Cumulative statement of upenditures (forecut and actual) for the Armed Servicee. (1850-U ftlCal )'eU'). Appendix H-Analysis of requests for conttHta by Procurement Agency for the Armed ServiCN. (1951-52 fiscal year). Ap~ndix 1-SUmmary of penditures for the Armed Services (1950- 1851) and (11151-1952)-April 1-oclober 31, 1951, also for De-fence Research Board and departmental admlniatra tion. Appendix J-Statcmcnt covering; 1. Th cost of training; equipping and malniainlng the 25th Brigade now In Korea, 2. The cost di R.C.A.F. participation in the Korea alrl.llt. 3. The cost of nav.i operations in Korean waters. Appendix K-Retum showing the co.st of training, equipping and main taining the 27th Canadian Infantry Brigade. Thru-eupon. Mr. Wnght tabled a scrlei ot eight questions ttJating to def~ oonlracts. ( e Evidence for detaHs). Mr. Drury commenle red number or typt.-s of rcra.!t, b11t the Item concern wa 1t m numbi!r 9. I have her copy lr m which I will rad: "Req11l 't n To: Th Mini. r or Trad , and Cornm~rc!l /1) Canadian C mmcr t I Corpor tl n. The n RCAF requ1 m nt rc.,r followmg: - lt m Primary No •'unds ha\• ~n reques ed for abo IU.•ITUI. Would vou 67 in ansport A rcr- ft !>2 ntu·y tlmat arra rovi ion or th House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 80 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/80?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:40:20 PM] abovo in accordance with detalled contract dem•ads co be fOi wariled to the Canadian Commercial Corporation over the dgnatun of U. Deputy Mini$t r or other authormrd officers of the ~partment ~ atiooal Defence!' That was recommended by D. M. Smith, and signed by C. M. Dnuy and by the Minister of at onal Defence. Hon. Mr. DREW: Is that the full report on that subject? The CHADIMAN: It i$ coming. The WITNESS: That was the flrst ffep. On Se mber 19, 1951, the Rt. Hon. C. D. Ho-A• , Minister of Def nee Production, accompanied by departmental official including Mr, A. C. Mac:OonaJd. ~uty coonlinator, pro duction bran h, V1S1tM the de Havilland plant In London, England, and inspected and flew in the Comet IA jet aircraft FoUCJwing this visit Mr. Howe instructed l\fr. MacDonald to dMermine whether any of these planes were available from production. Mr, MacDonald was advised by Mr. Thom. of de Havilland, that none w r vallable from production but that a French airline company had an option on two aircraft, althou&h there was some~ as to whcthtt they would e-xercbie this option. Under those circumstances Mr. Thom uggcstcxi that a non-exclusive option at no cost to the Canadian gt,1,•ernm nl cou!d be granted tor these aircraft if Canada so desired. Mr. Howe, behcvin thal the DeJ)artmt"nt of ational Defence m1Jht be interested in thele alrerafl, e.1r11ngoo for a non- xelusive option at no cost t the Canadian go m ment until October 7th. Tb off r and aCC"eptance of the option w re confirmed in an xchan e or lc;,t~rs betwc-en the Rt. Hon. . D. Rowe and Mr. C. . Thom, busin " ditedor, of the de Havilland Aircraft CQmpany Limited. I hav these wo I tt here, if you would lik to have them read. The CHAIRMAN: Wol.lld you, please? The Wlt'N ss: Th~ ls one Jetter: The Rt. Hon. r. C. D. Howe, P.C., c/ Mis:S Roone)•, September 20, lUl. Offlce or the Hi(lh ComnHS!iioner tor Canada, Canada- House, Trafalgar quar , Lendon S.W.1. Sir: Confirmin our lelcphon,.. ronvcn.at10n las mght with Mr. A . .Mac Donald, we he.\•e the honour to offer to the Canadian gov mmcnt a first option, CO\'Cnng the whole of the world lt'Si France on lwo ~rl IA Comet , Number!> 17 nnd 18, wh1t!h are :K"hcduled for the d hvery n December 19 2 ond January 1953. The prl or the ai~raft 15 £ 450,000, e t>h cx-wor~. fully ~u1pped to B O A.C. specitlcati n, but le redio, which would bt! installed to the Canadlan government's requiremcn . We e reed that thi option would come into force today, and will ex-lend until October 7, 1951. An option on these two ircrnll i already held 1n Fraru::c. but Uw op 10n ~ific lly exdud lhc orlh Am r1can t'Onlinenl, w~rr w hav ret{;linl"d our righ to sell lh two air-craft in question. W trust that tha arrangcm nt ' t factory to the Canai:Uan vcmment, end that we m11y look forward to their esl«!t!med order. We have the honour to be, sir, Your obeUnd Handli.na Equipment, and Publkations tor the maintenance of the said Comet Aircraft, to m t the requirements of the Royal Canpdian Air For ; Tha necotlat.ion1 were ntered into with the De Havllland Aircrert of Canada Limited, Toronto, Ont., the Canadian subsidiary of The De H villand ~raft Company, lbtflcld, England, who is lh manuractur r or the Aircraft requittd, as a result of which it has agreed to supply the id Comet ircraft at a price of £450,000 each; f.a.f. Hatfield, England, and has agreed to supply the sa,d Spar Engines and Ancillary Eq ipm nl on a "price to be nc ot1ated' b, which price pr nUy estimated to amount to $812,672.00; 'lbat. the und signed propo , liUblect to the!' approval of Your Exe ll nc:,.· In Council, to n into a contract with Th De Havilland Airt>raf of Canada Limited covering th supply of Uw said 2 Coml.>t. (Mk. I) irerart, Spar Enames and Ancillary Equipment, on th foregoing ba: , • : Th t th said contract to provid !or p ymc.-nl to the contl'ac r as followa: I. Tw ty-8\•e per cent of the total of the abov mcntionl'd pn per airc tt and timated cost of .n m nd An<'1ll ry Equipment when the said contract is placed; 2. Tw nty-ft per cent of the price Pt"r air r ft wh n th said o rcra.!t hall be 60 per cent complete: 3. Thirty pet" c nt of the pri«! per aiJ""craft when lh w1d airc aft 1,hall be 90 per cent complete: 4. The balance of the prire per airhma d to amount to 3,512 672.00, i chargeable to ~partment of . ation· I Dcf nc Fin nc1al nc:umbr n No. 47412: That the proposc!d contract is ln the puhli 1nt<>r«:'$L Th undersigned, therefo , ha:ii lhe honour to recommend tnat authonl be granted to n ~ into a rontt-act with The D HAvilland Aircraft of anad: Limited, accordinJly. Re peetfully subms C. D. HOWE, Mi1 11t r oJ Defence Prod t1 clio11 n here is th order in council passed on th 20th of • ovember, 191H, bear ng number P.C. 8213. This ls certified to be a tru copy o[ a minut ol meeting of th Pr vy Council, approved by Hi.s Excell ncy the Govemur Goner-al on the 20th of ovember 1951. https://lop.parl.ca/ https://www.crkn-rcdr.ca/ http://parl.canadiana.ca/important-notices House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 84 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/84?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:42:36 PM] 7Z SPE IAL OJI IIITTBB The Commltt of the Privy Councll have had before them report. dated 16th ovember, l 51 from the Minister of Defence Production, repreeentina: That requisiti n liu been ~ived from the Depa~t ot ational Jx,rence reg ting that th minister arrange for the procurement of lwo (2) do Jtavilland Comet (Mk. 1), au-er ft. complete with 8 spare n,in lherefor, and o qu ntity of nndlla • qulpment uonsistln of pa , occessorles, i~d tool nd ground h.indlmg equipment, nnd pubhc.i ions for th maintenance of the said Com l ircra1t. to meet the requil"(>menlS of th Roy 1 Canadian Air 1''orc ; That n gotiations r entered into with Th De Havllland Aircraft of Canada Limited, Toron , Ont., the Canadian subsidi ry of Th De Havilland Air('f'ofl Company, Hattl Id, England, who is lh manufacturer of lhe iTCr ft 1 u1red, re It f which it h s agr to supply the 5ald C met a n:rllft t price o[ .£ 450,000 ach, l .. I. HaUI ld, England, and has Jreed o suppl U1e 1d .·pare ng1ncs and nncill y equipment on a "prioe to negotiated' b[l. i., whi h pric Is pre n ly c.>s imnted lo amount to $812,672.00; • Thot it j_~ prol)<)Sed, ubj et to the approv l of lhc Governor 1n Council, t nl~1· into a contract w th 'l'h De Havil.la.nd Aircraft of C nad11 Limited cov ring th supply o( the s id 2 Come (Mk. 1) aircraft, spare en i and ancillary equlpm nt, on the for going b sJS; Thal the id conl1 cl JS to pro-.·id for payment to tht> ccmtracl r u rollow, : I. 2.5 ,.. f th tot: I f the abovC'JTll'nhonc.'n d<' ,;er• of the id airer !t; Thnt h otul exp mhture involved, to amount to 'DJ 2,672.00. ii; char (', bl Deten Financial En umbra • That fllract I i Th o ot he Minister of D fen into eontract. 'i h ord He,., pw Tb lt.'C'hnic purcha H v1ll nd tx-r 27, th D f •nt· announ1.•t>d th l:1 :lll lh t ut n lh ord, but y u nc art1culal'.· of th paym1..nt. the order i House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 85 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/85?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:42:38 PM] 7S oupttobave,tllll l'eld t QIPARTM.ENT OF D De HaYil.lud Aircraft of Canida, U. "L", Toronto. Ontario. A; tioa: . C. H. Dlclulm. CE PRODUCTIO OU.wa, ovem1-r 28, 1951. All invoices, lhlpping bills. ~ paclc.ing slip& and packag must show all the following purdlase order n~rs. B.lS.38-217/AIR/C.D. 511813/FE 47412 P.C. 8213 2-B-1-714..COEF-101 rial PURCHASE ORDER Please .ell and/or supply to Hi$ M~"1.Y the King in ri&ht of Canada, upon terms and mndltionl set ou\ herein and on the rev rse sid herror, lhe suppr and/or services listed below and on any attached sh ts or sc:hedul at the price or pri set ou\ lherefor. Oeli la be made-see low. Consign hipmen\ to be arranged. F.O.B.-see below. h Discount Terms-net. 11'4" ,, pru,• I wnt, d tAII I .,( Ulltl " -' i-hudllac eqillpcntora I■ House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 86 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/86?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:42:41 PM] 74 -.'PE I.AL OMMITTBE DELIVERY One 1rcrafl 1s to be d hv red by ~ber I, 15152. second ircraft by J nuary I, 11153. Deh • ry of sp to be arranged. P YME T On ~ pt of his order lh~re will bec-om due and payabl to you lhe nadian dollar t!quiv lent of £ 254,930 ·tcrling repr nllng 25 of the price of the a1rcrntt • nd 25 of th C'l!,timatcd pnce in lhe UniLed Kingdom in pounds sterling of th ci~ht spnre n nes. In add1t1on, the e will ~me du nnd payablo to you an mount o! 100,000 repre nting 25' of lhe llma.led cost oi he p,1 ' purb. On ro pt I documen ary ., den~ of 60 , romplct on pf eh 1rcraft, a (urth 1· p ym,ent irl the Canad1· n dollar 1:qu1val nl of £ 112,500 stl'rhng per hall om due nd payabl on recl'ipt of documentary evidence o1 90,.. completion f .!llch aireraf ,1 lurth r paym nt in the Can.ad1 n doll r Iva! nt of IJ5,000 terling per rurcra!t i;hall b(-cQm • du • nd payable. A Cl!rt'tk..it . igried >' the RCAF In. pt'<'tor or the r •present li-. e ot lh HCAz; 's duly nuthnru:c-d. inspe ion a,:enry 111 be ace pted :;i ev1d n ot p r~nlag • of comp! Hon. h ii nee o • olr(:rah will be pnid on ,nec-pttm~ of the ,1re h , ba f' spare •ni,;m and :;par • par 11 be paid on delh· ry RC F. lnspccHon t n or the Air Offi ·.,rnmttndinJ, Air Maten • r ht • uthon:r.ed r 1l by arrang or desbn. lion v. ro 1d~ to who l ns!K' t1on or u~ct:' of s • i· fen d to whcm'I t c: on racto wdl npply I )r iny t chmra format1un r gardI gooos or wo,·k ,:;;uppll under this contr,1ct, unl othcrwis • pec1fi ~ ected, All shipn1ent.- • :ic ·ompan 1..-d by 1iriccd h1ppmg CU:!i em nd. tano. dcla·ery or the ircr ft F.A.F. p:ir will be tl Ii •creel b)' y u H wrll • • i\F • wUI • le to Ing oin. :sp::Jr ond . ludt>d in . coo uµQn . Ila ii;m o( ra • nq;otmtc'ti '"'he.n RC F rc,quirc own . Ge nd1tian y nd Pro ect1on <> ,...-ork) rnn ined 1n Form C C-31 be ppl rind shall fom1 ) of lh1, P:iu·(·hase O1·d •r. Ace p cd b c d 11 ,.,,1 , (! Air<:rnf of Can da Ltd. C. H. DICKE Rcturn<-'d under d l n, r TEI¾ Jo' DEJ-". f, PR D 'CTI P r W. F. Mur hy. House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 87 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/87?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:42:51 PM] 75 .. Dolt ?-A. tblDk that 11 the comp story ~ Q. 'J'bm, havlnc rqard to tba I am Interested in the sequence of even Ulla point of : on December 3, lM'l, b)' P.C. 4438 the canadlan gov- ___.i decided to support the development and eonstruction of an ·rcraft known u C-102 jet tramport, ou are. aware of that order in council, Mr. Maebnzie. and under that. order in c:ouncil .,.nous au.ms were adv need for die developmmt of that aircraft. Do you know the total amount tb t w advanced in eonnection with the development of that aircraft?-A. The total amoun advanced to October 31, 1951, by the Canadian 1ovemment was '4.Hl,383. Q. any more payable under that order in councll?-A. There is an Item in tbe eatimaw. of the Department of Defence Production, and if m memory' me corredly, it is Sl million. That ls in the estimates for this . For the l!rst seven months of 1951-1952, $2'75,000 has been spent a,ainal that $1 million. There may be some other char& but I can say that they will undoubtedly be small, because the work has been largely suspended n order to pt on with the other teml In the plant. Q. You eay the work bas been auspended?-A. Largely suspended. Q. What 1a .till beiq done in that connertlon?-A. In the first plo~. one prototy only has been mad . The prototype is there but the MVeiopment of it is not 1oin, ahead very fast at the moment. It has been aside in ord r to get on with product on of th more important item-the ftgb r aittraft. I <".annot say that work ha.J been compl tely atopped. but the gr t bulk of the: efforta of the A. V. Roe Company llaa been direct4!d to ftgbter aircraft. Q. I am interested only from this Point of v1 w; I do not th nk that anyone ho hu tollow1ng th development of jct transport is 1n any doubt about the a tus of he de Havilland C<>mffl. I recaU the demonstration of the jet l~r h re on Mar<'h 12. 1&50, which, I f ncy, a number or thos who a here today also at.tended. But I was under the Impres ion th t it represented a mod I that wu in production. What we 58W und r d tnUNlralion at that tim . W w g v nan explanation of i ~cd nnd i uLiuty. That would ndicate, I thmk, one of the thmp that naturally eoflCtJ'rrn1 th1$ committL'<', nam<'l)' the fa<'t that this demonstration w put on by the Dcp:irt.ment or National Defence ln u manner and with c.-xphmnlions which gave he impr~1on that this was th pr~l.atlon of a proved aircraft. Th •re wai; un oubtNly sugg tion that it wai; intended aii a iuport aircra( which, in dditi n to any oth r uses, would be ava lable for military transport service as w 11. ow you do not indicate ex ctly how much • still beln done, but aC'COrdm& to wh t you $aY, development of lhls aircrnft • be(!n ul,istant tell)' stopped. I wu mte in an item which J w n a v ry roll blc publication In th Uni States, the N~w,,.eek of December 10. fr m which J qul)t page 89: ... a maJOt' . 1rline has lndeflm ly put off pla to pu the Avro II r into servloo. Avro caned topped mekmg 1l to lum out j t ftlh n. Do you know or any arrangcmuml m de with major nlted air1 n U5e th Avro J t Un r!-A. o. , That would not to your attention. Tb r a.'IOn I k vou that th acuvi of A. V, Roe a very sut. ntially under constant su.,irvlsion by the House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 88 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/88?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:42:57 PM] 76 8 1A£ lllf"l'6B oftlcials of your department throup the aaoci&tioD of \hat plant with department with which you are aaaociated. Thal ls correat. is & not?-A. Yes. indeed. Q. Then w re a number of thinp which gave rile \0 the belief that tbb wu a practical ·r liner beca on June 'l lut ye,ar, there wu British United Press dispatch from Sydney, Australia. dated June 7 which said: ••• Canada' Avro jetlin r will opera n!IUlar tn.nlPOrt ftipts across th Australian continent before the nd of 1950, air line offldala said today. I merely mention that th ~ was some reuon to believe that this jet liner had reached a point at which there wu a fair measure ot productlon. I understand that one of the things which held up commercial delivery wu lhe Qr nda ngme which was to be installed in it. Is that eorrect?- A. o, sir, Q. Was 1t th • orenda enirin.e which was in the one which was ftown here~ A. N , s r. I wn almo t certain that the C-102 Jet liner was never lnt.ended to be powered by the orenda. I know that lhe prototype which now ftying certamly does not have th orenda engine. Q. I know that. but at that time. on :Man:h 12, 1950, neither did the CF-100. Th,1t i correct, is it not!-A, I could not say as to that specific demonstration. The CF-100 has ftown wi h an or: nda engine. Q. But a thul time, you will recall, lher we English engine$, were there not7-A. T t is corr t. But I und tstand that th 102 not desicned- 1 am s r bat it is Mt d lgne,i for the orenda engin • Q. Then I wou.ld :;.cem to ml! to be of direct lnterM to this c:omrruttee to know what the decisions of your department were. I nm not spealdn of polic ·, but or dcci. 1 ns from the point of view o! the considerations which loo to th,H di'c-ision, o et len:st susSM?nd for nil prtlcrfcal pUrp(N'S lhc d~elo1> m1mt and produc ion of thti Ano 1cthn r becau I reeall that great emphasis was placed on the /net that we mu l not be dc~ndtml on flircraft produced l.'llhcr out ide of Canad or ut de of his ontin •nt. I c-ra.11 an nvajl w th t at th l In fc,r ad"•n rn.1 . u w:ir o :i to th • li\'<• us compar<•d with t at , Mr. Ch:urm,m, llnt•n;., tht.v would rm ord r:; on he produdion, :, Ulng u different t coming off a prodtlclion lme. t c- \ ,t would l r to mnk r t ft to th air equirenl ol thc1 h n those House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 91 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/91?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:43:15 PM] 71 11iatt11 ciDt,, tell. ht wbat .... ptOftll -,Jnel that would ~ the ...... air l,tff rels""1 ta. demand, . ~: Did you not tbet anotber major consideration the ~ of A'ft'O eoncentmion on cr-100- CBAaMaN: Memben caDD0t bear a word you aay. Mr. Campney. you speak a llWe louder? Ask the question a,ain so that all mtml>Ms ~ U.. room can hoar. Mr. CAMP n-: l asked . Maclrenzi• whether In fact ~ dtiirabihty ot tbe Ano Company coaceotratln1 on CF-lOO's long-range bombers was not maot.ber factor in Iha proc:edme. I undentood you to say JO earlier. The WnNm: That factor is the reason that thv Avro Company was directed and encourapd to mneenttate all their effo on the development of the fttbter and the reuoo th8' tbe defflopment of th jet liner was alowed down. Tberd It la a contributing factor to the pomble av ilability of dallvery. Mr. Dazw: There as one point I want to cl ar up on the record. Mr. Campney uked about the concentration on C-100 bombc!~. Tbe CJIADtMAM: H meant ftgh rs . • CAMP11&Y: or ClOUrse I meant fillhters. Mr. Duw; That ia be ter. 81,1 Afr. Adamacm: Q. The witness A.id that the jet Un r product.ion was lowoo down. l undersiood lt wu 8topped altogether. Whkh b correct'!-A. To all intents and pu~ it was stopped. There may be SOJM small item of expense lo1n& on, but to all intents and purpcses it has n topped. and th Is evidenced by the fact that ln the seven months of 1951-52 th total amount that tbe Canadian government hu contributed to ils d v lo ment is 275,000, Q. Have you llllY estimate of what that airer fl has cost up lo now? . I ga the ftgUtt earlier. . I am IOIT)'. 811 Mr. Dttto: Q. That Is th Canadian ,ovemment's contribution. Do you know whether the company would ha eXpended an amount above that?-A. Yes, it has. Q. Do you know what &hat amount would be?-A.. Yes, during the same period &he company baa expended $2,317,772, total of $8,886,135. Q. Wh eh ii directly cbargeabl to this p rticulnr au-craft. to i develop ment !-A.. That ia the total cos of the dev Jopmcnt &f the ain:-raft. 811 Mr M4edo11neU: Q. . cltenzje has referred to setting aside the work which wu going forward on this t7PC and h hu explained very clearly the re:u:ons which impelled the department to order the two de Havlllands, ecause, he said, the Caudlan product would uve had to be custom built, there being no oUier demand for them. Were those considerations in people's minds wh n the clft:ilion to tpend that large mount of money took pin , or ha there been new concUtJons aet up which have necealtated the virtual abandonment, as I unclontand it, for an inddnlte time, of the work on which so much had been invested? W: U, I think the evidence here perhaps will help to clear up llr 14acdonnell'• point. The Canadian gowrnment' contribution to the development of the C-lOS ln the r 19&0-51- .-rm House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 92 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/92?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:43:20 PM] 80 SPECI L COM MITTBB The CHADlMAN: May I suggest that you break those flgut.ee down. and by doing that y u will help the C'Ommitc.ee Members of the committee will not see thl"m for a little while. Could you have the.se figures bn>ken down by ye rs? The WJTNISS: I hould JWlt pu in this uali1kation, that the figures for the first three years are in round figures. They are more accurate in the lut two ycM . l will read, first or all, the Ogu~ of lh Canadian government', Cc) tribution to this projccL In 1947--48, ,1.soo,000, 1948-49, $2,000,000; 1949-50, $1,500,000; 1Ho-s1, $).293,363. Th n 7 monUlS to dnte m 1951-52, $275,000· total, $6,568,363. The A. V. Roo Company contribution dur n lhe ame y~: 1947-48, $580,000; 1948-49, 705,000; 1949-50, $585,000; 1950-51, $293,169. Th n 'l month!: lo d l in 1951-52, $154,603; lot.id, 2,317,'l'i2. So t.b t th falling off m expenditu •s starts in 1950-51 and is t rly well down in the fir!il 7 m nths 1951-52 wh rt>as the purchase of the Comet d v •loped only rea11y in thf! last few months: starling, as I explain , from r. liowe hnving a ride in Com in September of this year. He seemed to be mpr s..!:ied I.hat thi airp]n:nc mJghl s e the- purpo v ry satislacwri]y. Mr. MAc110N rr.Lr.: Ir I wtderstand you oom.'Ctly the drop-off in pendi ture ;.n at the begmning o! tbc eum.mt c l y ar. Ther had been already indicated very marked d(!(rn.."'l. . And nm,-.·, has that any s.ignlftcancc? Does hat nciicatc tha hl'n; wns lr ady chunge In m1 1d, or om I n tribu ing wm.e signific. m!'C hat is not there? Do I mnk my polnt? The WITNESs: I th.ink I . Wht1t you are ~ctling at, Mr. ll ac 011ncll. The f:llUn -off h~re 1. • n indi atum of Un addt.-d }l u h t had been put on to .he devclopmcm of the CF~IOO fighter, a11d t w don at the expense or d~v lopm nt on thP. -102 Jet nfrl n r . . WRIClf : C n we hav lh fl '11, Mr. Chairm;pn~ we~ ~WM~L Mr. WRIGHT: Cnuld we ha ·c for th Ri;:htPr plan as ou hav ju ·t ·ven u for " The W1T "F,SS: I 1fnlrCJ!I h , an lh is ano her matter nllogcth r. m· c r,g ly I.LS ndl'd, ol or why i i that • ' . 1 houJd lhtnk im r • g bill nnd Ja) were ask to t r hat pu rPl)S(! d t By Mr. D Ui-1 M:nrk nziec. f Uowrng t I) c\or b caus I lhink y II wi h m that add.ilion:l1 factory . p.ice hn~ been there In their forward 00. J thn et; n, within th last rew to n o my no sp «! al h • A" V. Roe ing a . Q. That t q t not lru that n order to J:l!l Into production hat lnnl has ooin bu1I at lh re nt imc- at Malton for th t purpos ?- . ine pl nt bcin11 bwJt t Mai on. House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 93 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/93?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:43:28 PM] II Q,1 .. ~.ai,.~1.: kfot-,1De4'elip ancl s,roddoa,not for alrfnmel. Q. Ot -any: tn,ie or di9"1k>Daurat 1oe11nto tbe ..me t,i,. ot. wan.. and I .oalc(lmliine that YOll cleddacl to proceed with thia procram of production ,ou WCJUld have baeD able to arrange for Ule provislon of lar,er plant at llaltoo for that purpose liml1ar to the new plant I engine productlon.-A. o. m. Tbe ename plant la an enUrely separate operation. Q,. J rMl1ze that. And would not be room, I am quite sure. tD. tbe A. V. 'Roe airframe operation to build both at the same time. Q. I would not tu«lesl tha it be put e ther in tbe preaent airframe operation or ln 1be new engin builclin,. 1 am merely a,,aggestinc that U there Md been reuon to 10 ahead on the new ;let Une-r that at the same time as orders were placed for th new engine bulldinc at Malton the proprietors or IOftfflMent could also bav placed orders for new space for this further ai~ prod&M:Uon.-A. 1 suJ>PC)lle It could have been done if circumsUlnces bad warranted i Q. Y Then I want to go back for a moment to one f~r quesUon referrilll development. I understand that it was Intended to acquire an airerafl that would be able to simulate the llight conditions o( a bomber ttack. That impl t courte, the training of bomber crew. I then come to tbla question. Is ll al present planned to order jet bombers? I am only asking you, what ii under consideration; or, whether a decision bas been made?-A.. Mr. Chairman, that would not be for me to answer. This department, the Depart ment of De.fence ProclucUon, can only deal with the ord ns whi h 1t has receved. Q. Well then, have any dec16ions been oommunicated to you bout the placing of orders tor jet bomhers?-A. o, sit-. Mr, FULTON: It ms: me that lh discussion here of th !lituation u regards di1C011Unuing the dev lopmcnt work on jet airliners )XIS5-ibly indicates a int.ualion which is closely parall 1 to what, as far as I have been able to gather, xists In the United States wh re there is a difference of opinion between the ov r-all defence production direction there and the defence ri,c,nnel thernsielv u whether the~ i.$ a sufficient cut-back In civilian production in United si,t so as to allow for the defence production which the Dcft'nc Departmen want. I would hke to ask Mr. M ckMzic what the posiUon ls here and whether In fact tht, dccuuon to discontinue the development work on the airliner and to ron~ntrate on the CF-100, is mdiealive of a le a ten~ney towards a cut-back of civilian pToduction and effort, and a further concentration on defence. The CHAillMAN: Mr. Fulton, I think th t is possibly a qu~t,on td policy_ Do you ~y think that Mr. Mackenzie is: t.be pcn;on wh.o should ans,w r that? He b here tor t purpo of giving Information to this commit • m1ltters on which th committee has jurisdiction, Don't you lh nk you are g Hing a little far a.ft 1d? Mr. FULTO : W 11, I assume, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Mackenzie, being the deputy minister of the departnwnt chllJ'~ With matter, relalmg to dd nee production, would be aware of the d<-clsioM th t have been taken, if they bad been taken, as to the isluc either of wtructlon11 r rders, whawv r they mny ha , t cut back civilian proclucti n and to con~nlra on c-tcnce The CHAIRMAN: If such decision had been made w would hav been intomM.'d of lt in th House of Commons. Mr. FULTON: But, Mr. Chairman, they are not alwa s announ in that form. t7J77-21 House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 94 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/94?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:43:33 PM] 12 SPECIAL O JIITTB The CIWUI.Uf: If decision of that kind bad been taken t would have been a decision at the highnt l vel: t would have been policy decision and would have been communicated to us In the ordinary way. Mr. FULTON: o, I do not think so, that does not follow at all The CHAllllAN: It should follow, and 1t u11ually doe$ Mr. Mcl~AtTH: Mr. Chairman, if I may; n't that a question of policy? urely, the deputy minister is not he one to give ev1d nee on policy decisions, as to what dll'Ci.-.ions hav been taken or may be taken. It seems to me that is absolutely beyond the cvid n which a deputy m1nisl r should be xp.ectt!d to giv • The CKJU.RM4'N: ~l 1.1.11 for the moment deal w1lh the matter w have before w. without waiting ny decision on Mr. Fulton' questions Mr. F I.TON: What was the matter before us? Th CHAIRMAN: Th matter b<-fo.n: us was the requ t made by Mr. Drew r l ling to the purch3..!K! ol two de Hav11land Comet aircraft l think. in faime$.II t oth r members of the commlltee who ar not as well brit-fcd on thu matter ru t.()mc who hav taken n more keen inwres, in 1t, they ought to be giv n an opwrtunity to r d the rceord before w~ go any further on thL-. m tter. We can oom back to it again t a future tim . Are lh re m lmmediat qt.u1s tion. m mb<>l"S have on this particular lll.lbject? 811 Mr. Ada,mon; Q. Thcr Ill on• qu tmn JN aj1Jiner. It was certainly my ln\p :s:sion an h nk the- im- p ,.i; on or the Canndum pe pie th.it the j t airl !fflcndous step forward, lhnt lhel'«• wa. a lru·gc future f r i and tal number of ord r: • An now, is thi comm1tt1 c,r:stan II be nly two ordeN plaer.d?-A. Mr. Chairman, re o II ow of for j t a1rlint·r:, All J unde it. t ion wt> ailn,i with b: whcthc•r 01· nol reqmrement for wo jc . por plane - wh t er hat or h h ve g n _ into 11n Avro air ther than Come . I don't er I sh uld g biJck nvcr tha ag in- fr. ADAMS() Th• WIT:n:ss: But the no ord r. r whieh I kno-.\' for the A•,ro Jt't 1rhnc.:r. It i o Jy ~1 pe a1rplnn . It n l m production, Mr. ADA I app th:it, but I w lhat lh1•rp Wl'l' p I ord ri. for lnrge numbt•r:s o .1-f-A ; Th ·n, /1:r. A arn l>n, JI t e trnn r un.,;w<'r:;, D you t ink it s "'1 t du try pc r ent through qur~tion!J that m rt not . i , s:i.iiil hl'l''t! miJ:h n : n that indw ·1y~ l lea ·ou t dl"<'Jd(' , T _ I lru t thal .iin b( for thi co will m any woy p inter~~ ·, l last thlng I would to do. The CH.Al Mr. Ad.am you know, a gre m pi read th record of our proc:t'ed1nl(S en.• My only thQ h w that f the answ •n: fn\' n might do :orm lO th Industry, How \' •r, it 15 D m hi h I I av l . uu. Mr. i; f:.'W:i: Well, 1r. hairman, I n't lh1nk I r a m m nt that t will hurt the indu t1-y. The H IR'MA •; All nght, 0 h Del . Tim Wr.TN Iv Wide tnndmg Qf th q l!Qnsid r:ilion ghren to lhe p sibilil)' f furlh r h('rt- has been nd ulllization House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 95 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/95?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:43:38 PM] II As,_ U. ~lion bu not IOl to the of-1-llocdertac. and no daubt fua1bel' deYelopment would be neceuary ~ orcfiln could be pJacL The llow-clown of defflopment has been clieuled on - aide by- U1PJM!Y of setUnl on with \he CF-100. The .,.._ tblng llas not bee• IC'lappecl Ol' abendoned u such, it hu been set aside llll 11W »r(ority could be giveQ to the undertattn1 ot further dtvelopment of fldater aireralt. Mr. ADualOlf: That is Ju.t exactly the answer l wanted; the Jet airliner bu not 11Uffldent11 clewloped to be In production stage, and that the ladliti• exlatin& at tbe A. V. Roe Company ~ff not sufflcient to carry on the dual JH'Oll'Ul of the J ah-liner and the j ftpter. la that correct? The 'Wmfas: Tmit la correct. B11 1'. ~U: Q. My que.Uon is W.. It this work has been lar,ely suspended and set uic»-the words llff different from thole r. Mackenzie UHd but their sil(nifi cance ii the same-what beneftt, if any, will we have 1ot for the expenditure ot elebt million dollars of publlc money: and, In uk.lng thal question l point out tha th18 hu beon 1oin8 on for 5 yean; so there has been plenty of time m which to I devclopmen . My unmediate question 14: Whal benefU will we hav got if production is not resumed?-A. We undoubtedly have a very sub- ntial benefit n the existence of the A. V. Roe Company which has bffn work- me the dev lopmmt of and on dev ]opin1 j engines, and llirplanes to be pow red by Jet enai~ However, wh lh or not this jct airlin r vcr ge into product.ion, it ha.a meant the building up of an industry which is now gett ng on th the production of jet ftah rs and presumably nn ~turn to production t 80D'.W la r date if concUtions permit the production of civilian je-l aircraft. Q. Then th reqummum for both must have ~n in the minds of those conttrncd for years. Why do we-I don't know why we should run into lh1 difficulty now. Mr. G~o : Mr. Chairman, apropos of that qu. llon, nobody has brou hl up the thou1ht t things have been chanse r. D11Ew: If nolxd), obj<'C~ I hat it W 1ft 1946. Th r. Chm m n, y I Ji.lSl fo number of poop c nnr ll u r"? mmut.c. H v 8, 1949, I 50 and o!Jh nd on h l. House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 97 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/97?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:43:50 PM] as ;tD: 1t to• um metaft are built to do entlrely ~ beaau• on the n,uret Mr. lhckende pve, one bM very nearly the ran,e of the other. In other words. one could 87 the Atlantic aad other couJcl not. Am I not correct In that? The 'Wrnma; Tbe7 are entinl)' dfflerenL They are fundamentally dNlped for different purpotN. Tbe ClwBMAN: For the mommt that brinp to a eoncluslon questions with NQeCl to tbe two de Havilland aircraft. until such times as you have bad an opportunity of readlna record-whicb will not be soon-perhaps not this .-ion--M\fertbelea you have the information. Now, we revert back to our pnvloua proceedings and start again with Mr. Drury. r. l"ULTO : Mr. Chairman. are we not to question r. Mackenzie further at this stqe on ,eneral subjects? The CRATUI.\K: Not at this •tat . Mr. Fur.YOH: Will he be back? Tbe CIL\DKAK: Yes. Mr. WatGRT: At this se.saion? I have a series of questions that would come lthin Mr. Mackenzie'• jurisdiction. I think they oould be put on the record now and be amwered later. The HAPlMAN: It would not be p08$ible for him to answer qU: tions at the moment. Mr. W'ltIGRT! o. The Ce.uaMAl'f: A\ a litllc later stage I wlll sua.iest to the committee a method of obtaininl ans era In the interval. Mr. WRIGHT: I want the,m put on lhe re<:Ord so the information wdl be availabl at a la r date, al thb ~on. The H DI : I assur you of an opportunity to do that, Mr. Wright. Mr. FULTOM: At this sit\inp? The Clll'JJIKAN: I do not know. W now hav Mr. Drury. Mr, C. M. Dnay. n.puty Mlmlw ol National De,mc:e. calledi The CHAmMAN: It my pu~, genUemen, to hn·e qu iom1 an wcred m the order in which Ute)' w re ukcd. In this respe1:t WQ ar very forturuit ln that w have a ropy or ac:h answer for very member t th commltt BO they will have il immediately before them. In that way you c-an proceed and quest on on be matte now or later. The llrst document i& in answ r to a qu tion asked by the chairm n, a Jut of senior appointments, supphimentfug Chart 2 tablro on Dcecmber 4 by Mr. Drury. ou hav the 1l t bcfor you, v.-ith your permi ion we will table lhu document. Mr. CAMPXEY: Would il not be beltt>r to have it prmted ,n he pr~d- lnp? The CHAUl N: Is 1t ar;recd that ill h I)!! printed? Agreed. (S Appt!ndix B). The second docwnmt is in answer to a qu 10n asked by lr. Wright about the d fence research board. Shall that ~ printed m the re "! Agreed. (Seo Appendix C). Nut ls a table of monthly pay and allowances, ask for by M . I'll, Stick and Chwdllll. We will revert t.o l docum nts n a few m1nute5- (See Appendix D). House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 98 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/98?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:43:56 PM] 86 :,;f• I L O IHIITTEK Next IS a statem nt on NATO mutual aid program, a ked for by M Wright, Church 11 and acdonnell. (See Appendix E). , x i a sla eme t of ffilmat~, allotments and e.xpcnd1tur , ked for by Mr. Macdonn 11, (See Appcnd1 F). ext 1s a cumul tive ,tateme t of exJ)(!n i ures, forec t an actual, a ked !or by lr. Macdonn U. l p,pendix G). 'ext ls an anal ts of requ~t.~ for c:ontra 19:i 1-52, a:sk<.-d ! r by i r. acdonnell. ( Appen ix H), br procur m nt all nc. , • •id l a ,.umm: y ot Maedonne . pcndilu.r , 1950-51, etc., ked for by r. { PWn l I). c w1 av, a statement oovcr:ing (l) he ~t or tr nmg, equ1p- m1m mt.luning th 26 h Canadian Brigade now m K he cast lo th tie1pat1on lh 1ft; nd f3) th O\"Y of m Korea . 1'h1s r lu ed for by M ix J). ere is a r tw·n on t pf rmning, u1pmt-nl and main- la.i 1a.n Infantry rigade, abo askl-d for by tr. Macdonn 11. qu arc do Jus te that you •anmit d1t;e'.'it all formation n mr Mi • oC ·ho v~ QLl ti ns, :,•ou ll" U$ h v 1;_._ , but 1\ LS an opportumty, \'ou h \'e $ MJ, Wm CHA ny? , h I w not ml! rn ·hich to di n adjo1.1rnl'll1.'nt. ur ~ornmit I • by ,;kin hey n . t kt muc: urv ha iy n lh~ n!. · 1 thil e? B~ Mr. ' glu: Q. y t,r1vc to do wi h DEF 'CECO TR. C 1. (11 (I (b) eh rontra !o House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 99 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/99?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:44:05 PM] 17 fi .., ~ of -of the 1'·81 ~ ,.,.... --ndio, anminenta and other ~ ~> now bela8 bull\ bJ Canadalr? (b) w• tbe total 00d to the ,overnment of each of the thirty I'_.. planes. (lndudin.l lr ~ ea,taa. radio annamen ancl ,pedal equipment) bw1t in CaW'ornla? 3. (a) Js any of the sub-eontracUng for~ of the part$ or equipment of tbe J'-88 awarded by lhe aovemmem or ny crown company rather than bJ Canaclalr? b U IIO. what parts are nvolved, to whom have uch contract. been a arded and wha k the amount of each? 4. c) Does the federal governmen or any c:rown company pay for the CE-J-4'7 enp;ie, Uled In the F-ae planes hem& built for the ,ovemmen by CanaclairT (b) t Is the price of each or th en1tne. used 1n the F-88? ( e What l.s the total amount spent for these naines in the period under review! (d) From whom are they purchased? .$. (ct) Have any ad~ been mad to Cana.dair for capital expendi wrea: for production and supply of airer ft during the ft!Cal year under review? (b) U IO, how much? ( c How mueb bas been cleared on advances made durin1 the prev ous yar? (d) What was the nature of capital expenditures for which this money WU spent? 6. (a) Does Canadair Limited hav an agrttment with the government for the u.e or Cartierville Airport? (b) What are the terma of this qt'ffffltmt., (c) How much doea Canadalr pay for the use or this airpon? (d) Is the airport \lied b any ot.h r company or by any go rnment department? 7. (a) Is Canada.ir producina: F-86 planes or parts thereof for any other country or counuu-s? (b) If 10, wha countrin? 8. (a) Doe$ the 1ovemmenl or any crown agency wn an shar in either th Elfictric Boat Corporation, nr in Canadair Limited? These are the qu tiona I am asking, Mr Chamnan. The CIIADMAJf: You will not f l angry, Mr. Wright, af you do not gtt quick answe to y-our Q\le$tiom! Mr. Wa1oeT: 1 did not expect an answ~r oday. The C1f&J11MAM: I said "quick" mwers. Mr. SflOC: k it an order for return. Mr. Chairman. Th~ CHADIMAX: Are there any other questions? Mr. GAUTIDD: Why not put them in book form? Mr. ADANSO : Mr. Chairman. I uggest that the copilal t-up of Canadair might well go into the record after those questi0111, bec4UM! th y are all along tbe A11US line. The CHADtMAlt" Mr. Drury may ha SOfflC! lllfflU to mak on th ntw'nl which are now bei you all. Tb& Wrfflaa: I think it mitlbt be helpful a word or wo by way of explanation of some of~ docum4ffl hich may h Ip the members of cammlttee. if I may Ute lhe t.enn. to "'di1est 1luem. House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 100 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/100?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:44:13 PM] .. SPECIAL CO MITTS First the hst of members of th Defence Re:learch Board and the number of office at National Defence headquarters I do not think need any xplana tion. B11 Mr. C4ver,: Q. J notice that the chairman of the chiefs of staff ts Lieutenant General C. FouJk . How many member are on the comtnittee of the h.i fs of st.aff? A. The chiefs of i.taff committee is compo.s.ed of th chairman, the chi t of the naval staff, the ehiel f lh gen ral staff, and he eh1ef of th air staff; also, the chairman of the Defonce Re.se reh Board. Q. Thank you, very much.-A. And as pointed out last meeting, there are th<'r propl~ normally in attendanC"C. 'ow, wi11 th m m rs please turn to the " bJe of monthl llowane~ or the armed forces''. Y u wil see th t the r11nks ar ah.own for eaeh of the 3 :;eniC'es and lit will noted that th ba i pay rr nge ment ar the QU'I for each of the equivalent railks in each of the 3 iicr,.•ices. Th ranks are set forward t.o show the pat llel names g ven lo the ran i11 he arm), navy and air force. B.1,1 f-r. tid,:: Q. I und ~t.and tha th rank o lieulen nd \'lte dmanal come under d1 erent catndcd to da (•'': the f\nal column ahowa the total amount trnnsferred .into the special a count, nameh·, 220 million odd. Q That has all ~n put into this spttlal acro nt? h that c 1~cl? The WITNESS: My ttention has been drawn to the qu lion of " ir ere tralh n ". The um for that it m do not o into th t1p<'Cial attou t B11 Mr. Ha.rkn ss; Q. ou me n the 4D, 00,000 odd"-A. 'o, J mean lh • 2,628,000. d the $22 million odd. Q. 24 m1llion ollogcthcr, 24,600,000 - , Th11l i c:orr ~l. Q. nd that h not gon mto th :spL-ci:11 ace 1l o • production dwi; not o I 1al t In ll ls 195,417,000?- . he mo n into h spec al acc(}unl. ii any, have ~n mad out of h1. p !'CW.I account? that. av a t rn on th11 _ I wuuld Iii< th<• return o 1m1I a.mount S}X'n\ out of thi i,pt.•d. a<'c."Ount and ·hat h t-A. he {I un:-s h~rc. althm•~h I have no got Tlie ~ 11. Th -~ I t was out f' th :pt i a ·ount for replacement equ1pm nt 19, 625; for rmam<:'.nt nd mmu- niUon, In the first months or th nt n o th 31s. of O • o •r, wa I of 9,381 ich $18,959,295 wa~ for a.rma- ment 1lnd am wp that spent in th prev al • repllleflMnt o l u-a to herland . ri wu a small ~n 1ture of for pu lk lions, I of h same equipment. In «-pla~ment of equlpm o House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 102 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/102?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:44:24 PM] 90 SPE /AL llMITTBB in the cu~nt ftscal y ar, and out of this same total w ha xpeoded $11,368,645' for ammunitions, and $2.,919.360 for armanaen equlpment, $19,116,021 for tanks and armoured figh ng vehicl , a,nd $310,000 for tools and tool kits. And th n against the oth r replacement items shown ln the Mutual Aid Program I l, w hav eXJl('nded 2,479,153 for ammunition, nd $18,388,361 tor armament. Mr. DREW: What does that include? Th WITNESS: Cuns and nftes, arm armament, ,mall arms and IJWIS. Mr. ADAMSO : Rav you the tot I there? The WITN' : The t tals I RBV Initially; for the l l Ilse I year, Ul,885,6%5, and the total to da e for this year, $13,549,381. Mr. DOUGALL: Have you th figures for the unexpired pol'tion of this year-I mean, whal 1s iitUJ I f unex~nded? The W?TN : I ha-.•e not worked out t.he arithm b , but what w I It unspent u, th dift r nc betw n $195,417,215 and 93,435,00&. The l0Z,000,000 app ox malely. The ITN ·: The Items i.hown a:i trandcr from x1sting stocks ar th~ bein , from lime lo time, noWlcd wht•n we d 01:er n n:-qu1 ilion c rrymg a cer ific ti n lha fund a c nruJablc l the Department of De!cnce Production. There obv ou ly "1i'lll ~ a la• between the time w ncumbcr the funds and send over lhe rcqu!Sition to he Dep~rtm nt of Defence Produc rnn and such tm s he (In dion xovern ment plaCE.-s he rder. Q. What that means 1s th1 , when )'UU will ha\·e expcndt'd in ea h approx1- tt•ly 93,000,000, you will h.av kit in U1al fund 102,000,000 pprONim ly, nd YQU have ma e commitm, n s ugainst UuH of another $140,000,000 or so. , We h v ('ncumbcred these fun t the extent or $20 ·7 mill on. nm thos-t' .ncunthmn~ we have xJ){'ndoo in ca.·h 93,435 006 . . lr. SncK: It is l o'clock. ir. Chairman. I mov we 1ourn. The WI :,; • ·s: Tha r pr nts. the rR e at wh1t'h d •liver at'(' bllm m. de .\I ains ht-• ·c d m.unds, By fr. Ilal'kmsli: 1111 Mh •r word:, h n, . t r as your commltmenl is ronC('rn 1t 1 lm~t rushed and :i,·ou w 11 h ve to dr 1w n rour other appropd.itmn to mak up lh . '!> I PQinfod 1.1t. a oiru.l proprl ion r 272,000,000 i mmltted pproximat ly 00.000. to ou t of :i,·our fund ls onl. ,000,000 with, nd on your regul r opprn HJ ha m nt nnd , ll, in genl'rnl, I "oul(I ,.: Uh y 1.1r •nl Umt w re. • • ng o on Ol r retiu1. r nppropr1a to purch nm.mu-nit io . ri t lS cor n::ct. e HA ntJ~ en, il b 1 'tlo('k. J ormatlon, l eic m ting :>' ou s:i\,•e some ori to nnd the kind nf inform, ion h:it )' 1 w fr - 3 d I d:r Ill h~ n t l OU ean put rd and n opportum )' tu e- r. D1u:.w! Of c:-o • xious . . nib. y u1 De nee t { ill . u Id lell ui. ng an- e , what bli.zook s r o out t th D rtmen o! N t Ollhl D,c,knt'e h not tell any given day exact1y wba lh y House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 105 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/105?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:44:42 PM] t3 • em.-u: . 0nw. Gin ..... dult Qu.Uon 1n second- •· Dnw: '!bat II what I thaiqbt, In about a seciond. '1'he Cllit,1111i1A11: -except that require tee:Urity clearance before thete qU8ldom are answered. 'Ibey re now endeavouring to obtain that; and you know, u ~ell u I do, that obtaining clearance takee time, all \hl.s material baa to be looted a and reviewed from that .atandpolnt be.fore they can bnng it down here. Mr. Duw: You mean clearance on security ground.? The Ce.uD,u.J,r: Quite. Mr. Du:w: The does not 1ee111 to be any reason why l:learance should nol ba bNn 1iven by thia time; the Items have been btfore the committee for .ome time now. The CJIAIJU4.AM: Since when? Mr. Duw: Since last week, Thursday. I believe. The CHAJJtMAN: Well, all this n ils a considerable amount of ork. I may l you. and lh committee, that the Departmmital staff worked u til 12.30 o'clock last nicht collecting this information in form to make it available to the commi . I lhlnk they did very well. r. Dllsw: I am raising the issue of amw rs to questions about the type-s ot w pons that w have for our land, sea and air Col'«'!!; and, aft r all, it Is we.pons that build real defence, with tramcd men behind them. We have lwd some cenerat ft,ures which are very importan , but, nevertheless, that is where ~r ne!e lies, in view of the very serious situation we !ace, and in the eventuality that we may havo to ftght. ~ y u juat s id, they could ~h• us th answers in a fll'('Ond with regard to inlUal production. On Lhis mal«?r of security clearance I appreciate, as you have said, that it is a diff rflnt roup of peopl who pasa on, who decide, whether th r is any m<1 ure or security involve!d. As I tee 1t. that hould not be very difficult to decid , pnrticula.rly ln vl w of 1h fact, a you pointed out, that whlle it involved the staff working until 12.30 o'clock last night. the material was r ady for r vww from that atandpoin thm. Th CHAI1t11,u.N: That i exactly what I id: one group of people prepared the material and it is now In lh other department, the ~partm nt of Defence, for the purpose! of security c:learance. A$ soon il i~ I red it will be brought to this committee. This committee stands adjour~ until 11.00 o'cltx:k on Thu~ay next. Mr. Duw: Just befor, you leave the chair. I sugg l th l w meet . 11.00 o'clock tomorrow. The CHAIRMAN: We stand adjourned unt I 11.00 o'cloctk Thursday morning. Mr. Dnw: W, 11, r. Chairman, I do n want to d any more ban p n the simple fac:t that t this committtoe adjourM until Thursday it means that lhlll commit is not goinR to get any informatirm bef re this lellion ends that lJ of ~al valu In de-t rminlng what our e pendltures a and what our ffcctive d Ccnce poSition ls. l thi.nk that ~ should ha\"c some N!MOn before w ar told at a time when al any r le the . r, ion i coming to a cloee or ma,; ven tennina this w k, tha w ar no goi to m t until Tb\lnday. I have h rd no suggestion of any reason why \I. should nut meet a 11: 00 o'clock tomorrow. Mr. MCILaAITH: May I say something about lh t? I obJc t to Mr. Drew'2l statement about our not getting more work dQDe and abo hl.'r hem o House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 106 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/106?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:44:49 PM] 94 . n; I L COM MIT'l'EB tnformaUon available for this committee. Surely, information such u have had brought forward this morning u; of real value Does be ma that Ul'h inf rmali n i1 of n worth at all? Mr. Duw: I said nothing of the kind. Mr. Drury can 11 u right now what rtfles re on order. what ~chine guns are on order, and what bazoo are on ord r, without 1111 lhiB difficulty? I l'annot believe that he Depar1ment of tional Def n h its r ord m such a state that they <'Bnno ten on an day e aelly hat the:1-· ha\' on order. The HAntMAN: Th y could am.wer that qu 10n m a nd. Mr. DREW: That is what I thought. The CH RM.A . Except they requln1 rt m cl a.ran before t q t.ion. a nn wered They are now endeavouring to obtain lhose--and you know th I ar nc a. well a J d nd until eh m - th y btaln $t!CUrity etearances- t1·. DRY.\\'; There would not m o be any rea n why th cl a nce-s could not b •i-nntcd This came before the committee- h Cu rnMAN: Ye . In t w k, but all th1 r •quirt'd a <.'Ont11dcrable amount of wol'.k Th~ p rlmen 1.1,•ark on this until 12,30 last night, an ordu to ntial material. s answers th~ a 11, and air it • • men behind them-not s1mp nt but. n this wher dl i erious iiituation, where th 11b1li y to 5 you uld of thu c jed of wh rity involved o eh wit then'.! are an· h from ps h d to ThC' • 'fA. actly t titm, On· f p pie had to r par r 110 w DEpartmcnt of Def nee for the purPQ3() , A soon -1 be n cl •an.id w 11 haw Tha I iii cum djoum now until Thur$day. , 1 do ni:, ·ant le than s1mply pn . .'~C mm1llct! adjuum n a t lhc• i:omrnilke is no gom to ~"t any lnfo11na s.c L; foy I a. k a q • w D m r ,., You .• . rmahon • . ·mat ask top th inut a w d l ng time. t e in!onnalion had r-l vcr to be elearro in anoth r depart- ::. ClC!ar 1 be urlty and that 11. ry im . ill you Ilea ln mind th on Wedne da' we belilm Sil The CHAIRM • ·: r lluit W dn d :!i Wt.' It t H. n that "' w II y clo on . il wh I hav enc:our ged lh1 rom- m1ltc k tor nfo I h th rnmd; A Rre t d a1 or mforma- tion mitt~ req ere-cl at thi. Whatcv r House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 107 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/107?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:44:55 PM] tbJt ~ • Har--. l affl ~ Coins to ~t this. There no tomonow mol'Qtnc. 'l'he hole matter of the lT must be a &OYernment decision. There ls no tomorrow mondn, th the department. and of In NlaUon to weapons. I will point It __,. tbat cannot pt inf~ on which bu tn • cleta1lecl form In put few days y boUi the United OreuBdtaln. "1'be CJWQl.ur: Mr. nr.w, we must each undentud from the very '.beifQnfn1 t.bat no one ha been retu.ed a tittle of lnforma on in this com otblnc J'OU brnt ubd. for bu been refused . • ~ILL. o one la IUc,estlns tha . Daw: Jam ukfng why cannot meet tomorrow. TM caaDM&X: The main point we are concerned with ls obta.inina laformatioD and it is tbt bope of eveey member of this committee that every bll of Information be brouah forward. Beca we cannot brin, It forward • quickt:r as we would wan or you would want it, lt la not possibl to meet WI U later In the k. r. Duw: Let us clispoae of this. In your own worc'ls you said that ques tions with retard to weapons could be answ red In one, second. Those were your words. You lakl ~t what pn!'ffJW!d an ¥'5Wtt was ch!ara~c with ll'd lieCW'lty, and tbete is no possible dou t but th t tw n now and tomono momlng. if that deolgion bas no\ ~dy been gtven--c-learan on leCbrity ln repnl to the weapons referrt.'d to can be Jiv n. Thett undoubtedly l:UY be certain aeeret weapons but that is .known. w are ref t'rmg o record\C wbteb lutp to extent that an ordinary n.sw r c.nn be giv n In one ncL That I think is the most vital 1nfonnat on, becau wha we 8J'e doln, or PNIPUinS do hCln! is to consider th defen Qf this country or we are preparina to mH\ the threat of something more th n defenc-c, Tb CxAs AN: I am anxious that er;,: bit or that information btou h forward, for Iha ~ I US\ltt you that i is not po ible t d l in so quJdc • tim • l take a r, days 1n order to reach con I I n un r which I hope will possibl to the wid possibl inf'ormati n. t do bow ha Uua co.nclwlion m y be but i is importan nough that w fhowd lea It fo, n&Jtt meeting of h comm tt Mr. DHW: Then l move l l tb1a commI ad U 00 iomon-ow mornlq. gain t The CHAD : You have heard tho m I by liMl ~ b Mr. onneU Iha ad to tamorrow monun, at U.00 o'clock. All in favour? All th Tbe IOlt. Da:w: l uk that the YOte be J'111COrded. Mr. Chairman. House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 108 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/108?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:45:00 PM] N SPBCIAL CO l'l"IBB The CIWRMA : ~ well. All \boee ln fawur of Mr. Drew's moUoa wll1 ,ay aye". r. STICK: Mr. Chairman, ln a committee the other day I 91ked for vo to be recorded and they told me it could not be done unleu I bad made the request before the vo was taken. The RAIRMA : I think you are riaht, Mr. Stick, and once the ote .Is taken, it la too late \0 k to have a recorded vote. You should I belie , uk for it before the vote is aken. The meeting adjourned. House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 109 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/109?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:45:10 PM] COKPOSmON OF TBBASURY BOARD to true CCIPJ of a JllDwi of a eetm, of the CommlUee of approved ~ Exeellwy the Governor General OD the • ltlO. The Commit f the Privy Counail, the recommendation of the Rilbt ._llOblrabl,e Lows S. St-Laurent, the Prime Minister, ad L That following mend)en ol. \be Kina'• PriVY Council for Canada-- The IUabt Honourable J. G. Gardiner The Honourule Alphonse Fournier The Honourabt J. J. McCann The Honourabl M. F. Gregg The Honounbl s. s. Garson do, with the inilter f Finance, constitute the Treuury Board. in accordance with the terms of the Department of nance and Treas ury Board Act, Chapter 71 of the Revised Statutes of Canada, 1927: 2. That the following members of th Kina's Privy Council for Canada bo pated a, substitute memberJ of the Tn>aswy Board: The Honourabl Broqlce laxton The Honourable onel Chevrier The Honourabl R. W. Mayhew The Honourabl Hucues poin The Honour ble Wal r Barris S. Tbat the pr ce of three members of the said Treasury Board do tute • quorum tbcn!of. A. M. HILL. AtNtant Clerk of the- Pri1'1( Cou1idL House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 110 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/110?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:45:16 PM] APPENDIX I D PARTM NT OF 1 ATIO AL DEFENCE (To be r d 1n connection wilh Chart o. a, T bled Dc!ccmber 4) D\I. : December 10, 1&51. Req 4uted oU Mr. CT U. APPOINTMENTS OF E 'I0R OrncER.S NATI0 AL D ·er. Ht:.ADQ RTJ'.8s, OTTAWA I. Ml 1ST 's Orrrct irus r •............. , , ...... , .... Hon. Brooke Cla ton, DC , C, BCL. LLD, MP Pnrli m ry s 1stants . . . . . . . . . . . Mr. J. A. Blnncnelt , M P, Mr. R. 0. Campne~•. .P. ll. D&PUTY Mr..tsn:R's OtTICE Depuw ini.t r . . . . . .. . .. .. .. . . . .. . . C. M. rury, CM, CBE, DSO 1,s ant Oe uty Minister ........... Mr. E. B. Armstrong • N!) .. .. . .. .. .. . r. B. a. 'ampbell, BE, ED ........... Mr. L. M, Ch ley ) , ........... Brl adi£>r W. J. Lawsan, EM .s . . . . . . . . . r. W. H. Dum ay ............ .._ •• + f ~ •••• * " , ,,acant s ..... , ........ ... Mr, P. Con E, MC "ni r , .. , , .. , . . . r. J. A. . OBE {Admin. & Pc onnl!>l) huirman, or ta Hrr. S F ST •• ,C('n. v. \'. hrnf or . a,; .. .. . .. .. .. . • d aingu:,, OBE, CD 1 c C ie! or Ut-ff' ..... , •.. , , , . D _ Wolf, CBE, Tecl\nical Servi . . . . I (El owl on, QBE I .... ' .. ,.. . c. l I ! {Pia S) . r ff { r ,. OBE, R' V. Ann- nt .. . • . . . . .. . ..•..... rm. 11r·_l .................... ... ,. BE, rl n , CBE, CBE House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 111 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/111?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:45:24 PM] .. A. QarUI, CB, ~ . lt. Jllll1er CU. CD . G. Watt. CU. CJ) c.1'anbal D. M. Smith. CH. CD D&nl«S Ralrt8CB BoAn Clael:r.mln • . • . . . . • . . . . . . . . . • Dr. O. Solandt. OBE. IID. ~. l'RSC AdmlidltratiOQ • • • . • ••.•••• Mr. G. W. Dulua, C. A. Chief of Dl'rilka A . . . . . . . . . Dr. G. S. Field. DSC, l'RSC1 F.ASA of DJ-,t.- B .... ............ Dr. J. J. IX C DEPARTMENT OF NATIO AL DEFENCE Date: December 10, 19-51 Requmed b11 Mr. Wright. MEMIIEKSHIJI OF TH& O&Ftl Cl RIESIARCH Bo.uo Chairnta'II (full-Ume) Omond McKiUop Solandt, O.B.E., M.A., M.D., D.Sc., M.R.C.P., F,R.S.C. Vice-Chairman (!ull-time) Emlyn Llewelyn Davie , O.B.E., M.Se. Members e:r-o(lido The Chi<:l ol th aval Staff-Vice Admiral E. R. Mainguy, O.B.E., C.D. The Chi ! ol the Gt-ner 1 taft'-Lieut. Gen ral G. G. Simonds, C.B., C,B.E., D.S.O., C.D. Th Chief of lhe Ail' Staff-Air Mar 'hal W. . Curti ·, C.B., C.B E., D.S.C., E.D. Th Ocpuly Min' ter f atlon l De!en~.M. Druq, Eir.q., C.B.E., D .. 0. The resident o( the lion l Research Council-C. J. Mai:kenue, C.M.G., .C., B.E., M.C.E., D. ng., D. Sc., .L.D .. F.R.S.C., F.R.S MembfTs by appaintmen f'or lenn5 or lhr y ar ) R. F. F c,iuhar on, UtE .. M . . , D.&., F.P.C.P. (C)., Prol rand Head o! th D<-parlment of Medicine, nw rs1ty of Toronto Toronto, Ontarto. M rch 31, 1952) H. Sm)th, C.8. ,,, . .A l, Canadian 1 ustries Ltd., al, P.Q, (tc - I, 1952) A. E. Ca , M .&:., O\' Stoti T hn.i al C II ge, . (tl'rm 953) Wallace, -Pn· i nt milh an G , h 31 1953) A. rdon, O.B.E., M.A., Ph.D., DOr nd Head ol the Oepartm('nt of C'hcm 1,Lry, Univc L , To to, Ontario. (term ~x 3!, 1954) G. i , :hrum, ., .M.A., Ph.D., .R.S.C., Prof ~s,;,r and Head of the ~p tm ·, ·, Unw ~it~• f Bd b C lumbia, Van<.'ouvel", 13.C. (tcr . Mal'Ch 31, 1954) Sttrctar11 W. H. B rton, A. House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 114 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/114?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:45:46 PM] lG c! ! > 0 ;i: !:i I',) = i la! 0 0 ;,; z ~ ~ ◄ tal . 0 .... i== ~ :t: z ~ g 0 ~ I - ;,. i ~ !I: ..: ~ ..I ~ f" ~ z .. J w ~ z :.. E-< ◄ ... .:; § ~ I! ~ "" ::i. 7. ,. I l ~ • >- -< J ..: $ ~ :,;: ~ .. - !l .. e i J z • < • :Ji I l .,: -: " i -:Ill j J ! ~ .. I - !1 Ii J J .. i ] ! Ei ~o a! " J House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 115 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/115?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:45:54 PM] House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 116 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/116?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:46:02 PM] 104 Sf' IAL OMJIITTEB = House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 117 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/117?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:46:10 PM] ID,W,'331 10,9111,SIO II.Ill 11,ll.\ A,7'1'D.-ta U,770. m.m 100, 101.100 tl3,aao ,.w.i&o .U0,000 35,000 ' 5 I ·'°' 231,788 4 .w I, 1(18. 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N,1115 .a.no U,380 011.!lllO DO, 11111 11:Z,630 ·•r.wi· .. 76,330 IN.O'.IG 21,114 34,100 lle,432 73,317 House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 122 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/122?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:46:41 PM] 110 EC/AL OMMITTBB ll l L \TI\ D House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 1 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/123?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:49:19 PM] Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources Search within this volume: Search Matching pages: Image 60 | Image 61 | Image 76 | Image 81 | Image 87 | Image 88 | Image 89 | Image 90 | Image 91 | Image 92 | Image 94 | Image 95 | Image 96 View About HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMITTEES, 21ST PARLIAMENT, 5TH SESSION : SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE EXPENDITURE, VOL. 1 « House of Commons Committees, 21st Parliament, 5th Session 206 pages, 198 with full-text search [?] Image 1 Browse About / Help Parliament Français http://parl.canadiana.ca/ http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/60 http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/61 http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/76 http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/81 http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/87 http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/88 http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/89 http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/90 http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/91 http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/92 http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/92 http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/94 http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/95 http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/96 http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/1?r=0&s=1#documentRecord http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/1?r=0&s=1#documentRecord http://parl.canadiana.ca/browse/eng/c/committees/21-5 http://parl.canadiana.ca/browse http://parl.canadiana.ca/about http://www.parl.ca/ http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1?usrlang=fr House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 1 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/123?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:49:19 PM] Content provided by the Library of Parliament Produced by CRKN Important notices » .... • ·,:. 1,1111 • ·•:- 1.1• ... .;. ~-- .Wll I.Ill a,oao l,NI t,3'1 .... ,; . . , ... .. ·:-· ,.m ·,:. .... .: ... .. ~ ··-.... .. , . ••• 11:ia I.ta ··•·:- llt,'71 ' ji3;7111 uoo , ... e.ooo I.Ill 1,UI .... •• .. ·;;;;, 11,GIIO U,111 11.• tUDO " 1i.• . .... 11,111 f,171 ••• .. ii:111 15.IOO l&,. 131.'IO le'l,IGO .. 11i:iio 181,000 131,619 l • cwlO dll , .• 7, t.m li.lDD ··-11,CIOQ ll,121 11,800 1111,11$ ao.ooo .. ......... https://lop.parl.ca/ https://www.crkn-rcdr.ca/ http://parl.canadiana.ca/important-notices House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 124 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/124?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:49:23 PM] PBCJAL COIIIIITTBB C ULATIV£ STATB¥E?ff OF E •oJT RES-FORECAST A. 'D 1961-6: FlllcA1o Yau b-J. ol Dollan) , IR FORCE .-.Etc. , ...... '' ......... . - .... .. , ......... . ....... ... ....... Jut PIJU4Allo~ B Orl&l,11,al l . .. , • . . . . . . . . . • • .. ..,.. J ;u Ac lwu fuw,:,nditu , ........ . , •••••• P'rot-UffmtDI .......... • · • ••• 2 ■■ I ■■■ I O ■■ I ■■ ■■■■ ... ' ... ' ..... . -.. --~.... . - .... ■■•■ I ■ ■ 0 ■ ■ ■ • ~ ~ .......... I• ■ I ■■ I••• ■■• I ■■ ................. , ... . c :..spoo llttl"e .............. . .,,.. Ja!)" L-COII, 4&,m •• 000 ... 127,411 Ht,000 l~.fl'2 um G,000 2, 11.011 House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 125 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/125?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:49:25 PM] DJS'UU OF D us Alr-C ...... 1111..g l'llaA1o YM& cn--taofDoDln> J,b AQIUI 18Nitaniharl O~ber AIR JORCE ' .... . . . . ... . .. .. 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I ~.800, Rnilod I' (t.o lh• mdalltwy ) ... •··•••·•····•••·~··••· 4'1 , 7'7' , 000 otul c-r.- -a:i•lalcod 1-o 31 0a b« IIIJ... . . . . .. .. . . . . .. • . :i.t. lkO, r.11 House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 126 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/126?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:49:34 PM] 114 SPBCIAL COMJIITTBB APPENI>IX B DEPARTMENT OF ATIO AL DEFE CE AN LY J Of REQUE; l'OR NTIUCTS BY PI\ IIIIH "Fuc.il ._.. bao-.d of OolW'II) REME. T OE Y Dato: ber 10, 19&1. House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 127 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/127?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:49:39 PM] 1 .... .,. 11.no S,161 •• M.tM m.7• S,'57 aa.,u 12.m 1,161 18',eA l,70ll,386 1,967 ..... 6,IJIOl' m,u, 3&,ffl sa.m 1,116,oa& 11,82111 '36,%7! i3,W House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 128 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/128?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:49:45 PM] 116 PECIAL COMMITTBB ~ -- ri.. I .. ;;:: ]~ ~ i ., Ei ,,. .. C ~ ;; "- 8 i ::,: t.: Q g :.'. u ~ ..,. ra. i r.:l Q - ~ ~ - ~ ~ 5 < .... z :- s Q, ~ ~ 0 ~ 7. a: .., .. t: ~3 r;:; ,". ,:-. r: ~ ~ .;; :,. 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' ~ ]ji ;; ... !! ... es Q ~igl z ~ i:i. ~ eE r.:: - -... e ~ -.:i: j .. ;ol l'l a 0 I-< .!l Q ~ .. ... :; i ~ ~ .:. --: Q < =- .::i -,: ., (.l ~ .., ~ i:: ~ - < ,:;i ~ z; ~ ! ,:.,, .. c:: JII ~ ,.. z C House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 133 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/133?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:50:16 PM] } • • .l.i __ ;..,___;_:_.;-:-.,----;..:____;__;_.~---+----:--:- 1! '!-s ---'--~~--4-I 11 ~I ---------.:.+--+----'-Ii~ i:. --~--'-!-=~li H iJ a.f S: 'iJ it: 11 Ji ii l~i •s t1l j1 ..::Ill ... i 111 s. a House of Com m ons Com m ittees, Special Com m ittee ... - Im age 134 - Canadian Parliam entary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view /oop.com _HOC_2105_1_1/134?r= 0&s= 1[9/6/2019 4:50:22 PM ] ro 11.1 II l:l' Dl-:P.\ RT)fEST U.l N.n1o~J\L 1n:n;x ,11 :M\IAIIY OJ' EXl'J:. ... 1>1nmes J"'511-JI \:'llD Wl-:U II ,\PJIH .. --~1 ,\llllt - Lt.51-.:4 ,Jj. )NIJ nP OBHJI ; It.Iii s APPENDIX I tContJ Lond Pro,. <'llr'C'IDC'!lt - ~ ~ ... ::i,. ~ g 111': 1t ... ~ = n,11.:t111, ••••• •• _ ... n.:ast im,U5 s.seo 117 •• House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 135 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/135?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:50:28 PM] t2S House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 136 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/136?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:51:33 PM] 124 ~ = § til i u ~ ~ ~ c. ~ z - ~ !- 0 -,: < z ~ ' 0 ~ ~ '1 ~ :ii ~ .. = ;5 < ~ i:i,. A 0 ;,., ; ·- j J3i , < SPlfCIAL CO Ml1'TBB .. ' ... . . ' j] .. ... . ' . ' :c: ii t ' " .> House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 137 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/137?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:51:36 PM] House of Com m ons Com m ittees, Special Com m ittee ... - Im age 138 - Canadian Parliam entary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view /oop.com _HOC_2105_1_1/138?r= 0&s= 1[9/6/2019 4:51:39 PM ] en Ci 00 C' PJ OI 116 00 111 O'j w 10 } II 12 '* ,. II -.....-..-.. -- ~,._'".:I' 11.a nl,J.laquap &11t11 t,IJf.lU JA,:l111U• 1.5 R~l&laq( i..d. Balldf..- .. ...t \\·~i.. • .• ,. •• I OCTOBEJI, "51) DND ONP .. = APPENDIX I (C'oat.) 1.-.1 Pr-. ffl"'11t - ..... t-, ;:: 2,380 <") ... :a. 3,IINJ t"' 219,ffl 8 1,783 788 it: IU'° It ~m ... "2,Mt ::i 1,MI = 73,1187 40,789 »,787 ···-.... 172,817 712,411 II,= u..1• ,7 House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 139 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/139?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:51:51 PM] i'Jf;i :;-~.-a I c.• .... -'"._ l·Jl {if llii. :.-ff: !•·2.1 !6 a.Sh £11 iil~ ~-~! ='fl itt e !-s j s·S- -· '- [ -iJf g s.-:11 a .,, ?fil t iJ'~ [ J, I ijl • ''1 -I!, '>.~ .-u.cia f -~~••a = g • ri~J~h 1imlll1 !' ! ll.9-[rlt-lftu- i l~t1f~11•,rtl~ul~_l .. ~,i--1 ~f1: a..rr ,r,i t•· ..... !.II [f,"'· • . 2,i" ' t r_:r ~ !t'r . ::, ~1 - s· gl•, r; ~! .. is:. ll ~= ~ !.'.: L! B . li t;;: tl ~ • = I. !I ... • House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 140 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/140?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:51:56 PM] 12, , />EC/Al OJ/JJ/T7 BE House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 141 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/141?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:52:01 PM] I JI -J.---:-~~~~---f- t • Ii i i:11 8 rj l g i i '!I i z I -I-----'-~~ l !" § .. i 2 ~is; i t~!f ... .,; House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 142 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/142?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:52:06 PM] uo ,l'E I.AL OMMITTEH Y.. f'I' , DIX l t) .II I. I, House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 143 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/143?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:52:11 PM] :AL 1ft IXJ{CGee.) ••ea.....,_.. 001'0na. ••o .,,_IDIIIIIU'IIIIII Ufl-8 ApdMt Oaeoba3 n,rue Loml DDP ~ IDen\ • I I J ..... 267,,ta, 1.eoa ,IOl H,318 32,fe8 JUIN U,Ml l' n 06, It 411 3 3 9111 tlO I 710 ™,1110 House of Commons Committees, Special Committee ... - Image 144 - Canadian Parliamentary Historical Resources http://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.com_HOC_2105_1_1/144?r=0&s=1[9/6/2019 4:52:18 PM] IJZ M 111 'fF.P. APPENDIX J n coveri 1. Th co of ra1nmg. eq in K re,: 1ppin a m n \Ii 2. Th eo· or R i lp:1 3. 'fh t.· p n Ko C'OST ADI q en d I Mr fncdmmeU 1. Pa11 imd Allou•ances Total , nglh, 0 F l ....................... .. F l 2 (8 (Ill\ ) ••.•••••••••••• rnnk on Brigad 8,-179,033 8,88. ,681 T t . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. 17, ,71 I La ·.qt Port Le " . ,ln Tr

Special Commottee on Defence Expenditure No 3- Minutes and Proceedings Dec 10 1951

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